Sat 17 May 2008

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The new AMD roadmap restores a bit of confidence

Analysis Still a long way to go

AMD HAS TAKEN the first baby steps in fixing its credibility problem with the server folk, aka coming clean. It was the same thing Intel did during the dark days of the P4 era, restoring confidence in the roadmap by shutting up and doing.

Today's revelation is an admission of failure on a massive scale, both in terms of current competitiveness and future cores, but it is better than carrying on like nothing is wrong. The two biggest things are they aren't up to snuff core for core, and Bulldozer is looking wounded if not dead.

The first part is obvious K10h/Barcelona is not competitive with Penryn much less the big bang that is Nehalem. To counter this, AMD is upping the standard core count by 50 per cent to six, basically make up for deficiencies in IPC by upping the raw number of cores you throw at a problem. Die area to make up for design, like adding cache to a P4. It works, but is far from elegant.

The good news? It will make up for a lot, and the firms compartmentalised architecture will make it a fairly easy thing to do. The bad news? Intel has six-core parts coming as well, and Nehalem is compartmentalised so they can.... do the maths.

The disappearance of Montreal was at first troubling, but the addition of Istanbul makes up for a lot of it, what you lose with two cores you make up for with no additional HT hop latency. Well, not really, but it will help.

If Sao Paolo and Magny-Cours are earlier in 2010 rather than later, they might make a difference. If they are late, we really have to question why they would bother. These parts will be up against Westmere on 32nm, a much smaller, cooler and core for core, vastly superior parts. They damn well better be on time and exceed all expectations.

The most distressing part is Bulldozer. Much was made of it not being on the roadmaps last December, but that was a tempest in a tea kettle. The real problems have come out since then, and the only way to say it is that the architecture is a huge flop.

No, this isn't to say that it won't be fast or meet every spec that it was meant to, simply that it can't be done on a 45nm process. This means that it will be on the 32nm node pushing it out to late late 2010 best case. It is probably a good time to mention that restoring confidence in the AMD process roadmap might be a good thing right about now.

In essence, what AMD has now is what AMD has until 2010 or 2011. It doesn't win many benchmarks now, and is facing the biggest leap in Intel CPU power since the Core Number Numeral transition at the end of 2008. They are going to trade raw area to cover deficiencies, and it should work OK but won't win many converts.

Intel on the other hand doesn't really have to do much at this point. They can simply coast for two more years and maintain an easy lead. My guess is that they will leave the low end to AMD and reap the high-end profits while hopefully not becoming fat and lazy.

Much as many would like to point AMDs current situation at external sources, mainly Intel, they can't. AMD simply botched its core business and can't seem to get a CPU out the door at promised frequencies to save its life. And that is its own fault.

With the Barcelona debacle mainly behind it now, Shanghai looks to be a baby step forward, a quiet manageable baby step. There are tons of samples floating on the part right now, and it looks like a decent move forward in performance.

If AMD transitions this into bigger and bigger steps, it will restore confidence, have much more competitive parts, and probably survive. If they screw up again, I don't think that even Intel sandbagging will save them. AMD has laid out an adequate and more importantly doable roadmap. Now they have to do it or die. µ

Comments

I agree

I am a hardcore AMD fan...but it's been clear that the past couple of years they have truly lost the plot.

I am still staunchly sticking to my AMD guns in machines I build, mainly for the glee I get by thumbing my nose at Chipzilla, but I freely admit that if you simply need the most CPU power you need to go Intel.

AMD is really on the brink...they can't afford to misfire anymore with chips that don't keep up with Intel. I think the next couple of years will be exceedingly interesting...either AMD will execute and gain parity with Intel again (dare I hope for a performance lead over Intel ever again?), or AMD will no longer exist as we know it.

...which leaves us, where? Hoping that the new Via core turns out to be even more magical than it is? Hmmm...
posted by : Motoman, 07 May 2008

A bit late...

First, the AMD lost the confidence by killing the 939 socket and leaving out in the cold all the fresh P4-Athlon converts (including myself).
Now, the only thing I want AMD alive for is the competition on the cpu market.

PS. AMD could change the name Barcelona for more appropriate 'La sagrada familia of Gaudi' - something being built with similar success.
posted by : Zu, 07 May 2008

"We've got a really big Tour"

After opening for "Alvin and the Chipmonks," the Fabs Four fell like shells in a peanut gallery. But look out girls, guess who's on the market again? The Kool Smart one! What is the other one named? AT Is right! It's a bullseye~smashing! And the board revolves! Now for £25m, who's the vegan naked chef you can hit, all for the throw of a dart? Milling about it is! And that's the way we play: Numberwang or Wangernumb! Who wants to be a Sorcerer's line is it anyway? We don't if your city has been named, but this magical mystery tour is bound to be coming to your Beds, Herts and Bucks anyday now! DAVE git me outta here!
posted by : â‚­arlsbad, 08 February 2008

What they need to do...

Is shut up and do like the article says. It's a lot better to say "hey my product is not as good as the competition" than to brag around saying "My product will reap everything out there" when you know it won't. You may win a little money fooling 2 or 3. But in the end you will disappoint the rest, make them hate you and it's just not worth it. I hope they learn the lesson.

-A disappointed ex-AMD fan.
posted by : Kaizer Douken, 08 May 2008

All due respect

You are all sheep. Intel can't get Penryn out or Atom, but of course that's OK. They wen 3 years heating up offices but it was OK.

Everyone knows Intel cheated. They sabotaged the Opteron launch. They forced Asus to put mobos in white boxes, etc.

Now they are a LITTLE ahead and supposedly AMDs chips now can't run Vista or games or anything at a speed worth buying.

It's no wonder large corporations have no concern for "the little people." Sheep don't deserve respect.
posted by : Some Guy, 08 February 2008

Sure

Im hoping AMD has learnt from its idiotic mistake a few years ago when they ditched their roadmaps on the 939 chips, but im not holding my breath. If AMD can actually keep their word this time then people might start buying their chips again, but until then they have a lot to prove. AMD has to stay committed to its goals for long term support, not just rip customers off.
posted by : Sure, 08 February 2008

So what happens to Fusion??

Fusion was supposed to incorporate bulldozer cores, do you have info on that matter?

Do you think they could deliver dual bulldozer + GPU on 45nm? Can they use shanghai instead?

Any updates on Bobcat?
posted by : Max, 08 February 2008

Power

We still by AMD based servers since they use significantly less power than Intel servers.

This really pays of in our data centers. We can pack in a lot more AMD based servers than intel ones without breaking the power budget.
posted by : Mt. T, 08 May 2008

sounds like time for 32nm

If bulldozer is dependent on a 32nm, I have to ask this:

Why aren't they putting all of their effort into moving up the schedule for their 32nm process?
posted by : michiganfan, 08 May 2008

Oh Charlie!!!

I really don't see anything new with going gaga with DAAMIT. It's really expected for a typical DAAMIT salesman... How rich are we with promoting your product?
posted by : Fudzillo, 08 May 2008

omg its the 90's all over agian

omg guys remember b4 amd first beat intel amd just beat intel on low end and cheap chips
they did that for a decade plus and it got them threw and know because they arnt winning against a company that is 5 x bigger omg
just to note for ever one the money for companies arnt in super high end stuff (unless u charg supper high prices and people buy it which intell isent doing[smart move]) the money in low/mid range this is true for most technologys why u think mid/low end phones are more profitable


as long as amd can rule low end its all good
posted by : julian, 08 May 2008

Ialsomissmy939

..the 939 was a platform AMD chose to sacrifice for the ramafiosa - ddr2 any1? Now I can't qualify this with figures and charts but I was there, I saw it, eventually, though through Intel, I bought into it. Sorry AMD/DAAMIT whoever, but you turned into Intel behavior-wise when you were no1(939) and now U bleed....
posted by : 939fanboi, 09 May 2008

Apparantly

I dont care about intel or AMD
my AMD 939skt X2 3800+ still runs games today, but gets eaten up by anything else new, but im not going to be running things at 2056*whatever resolution!

People think that AMD cant play games anymore, they are still bloody fast chips!
posted by : Taxation, 09 May 2008

Don't buy into 32nm cpu's

until you can get one in a store, benchmark it, and drop it on your foot. Going to 32nm is a much bigger step than 45nm. For Intel it may mean 3-D transistors, immersion lithography, and Longrun2 which they now license.

Many of AMD's problems of late can indeed be blamed on process which means blaming IBM. The same problems caused trouble for IBM itself in the Cell and XBox-360 processors. TSMC, already half the size of Intel, would seem a viable way to go.

TI and Sun announced building the new generation SPARCS in 45nm at TSMC; TI previously announced it would not build a fab below 45nm. Qualcomm announced a 45nm chip set this fall from TSMC. AMD is too small to develop processes or build fabs below 45nm by itself also, in fact 45nm seems a stretch.

What's happened to Fusion? It has seemed a path to using bulk CMOS and foundries for AMD cpu's if IBM failed at a viable 45nm SOI process or it was delayed too long. It also seemed a way to make cheap desktop supercomputers thanks to Hypertransport and the gpu's.
posted by : maguro_01, 10 May 2008

An idea for AMD

I know many from AMD read here

Can you build a multi-core where each core has a specific job.

Say a 5 core beast,
core_#1 is the heart and clocks / manages the other cores and the OS kernel etc
cores_#2 and core_#3 run graphics and audio
core_#4 runs like the north chip
and core_#5 runs like the south chip.

Each core can have it's own memory controller
posted by : RogerP, 11 May 2008
IThound
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